Retrieve emails that are failed to deliver

Some of my emails which I route from my domain to an outlook ID got failed. Is there a way to get those failed emails. The emails are really really important to me :bangbang::bangbang:

1 Like

Welcome to the Cloudflare Community. :logodrop:

Not without the sender sending them to you again. 5XX errors represent permanent failures.

Pick one. You will not be happy if you persist in forwarding important email to a large free email provider. If your email is important, you should be routing it via MX to a mailserver that handles email for your domain.

1 Like

@epic.network whilst I can see your point to some extent, a company with the status of cloudflare should surely take more steps to reduce the number of emails that are being lost without a trace. For example from this thread it is apparent that many people (myself included) are experiencing problems forwarding emails to gmail, and cloudflare seems to be doing nothing about it. Yes, it falls into your “forwarding email to a large free email provider” bucket, but I don’t see why it shouldn’t be possible for said “large free email provider” and cloudflare to figure out something between themselves. I’ve now changed my MX records to point back to hostinger rather than cloudflare… never had any problems like this with hostinger…

Of course not. Hostinger is providing you with mailbox service not email forwarding, which is a practice that was already becoming impractical a decade before Cloudflare Email Routing entered beta.

For a decade, my advice for people who are not willing pay for a Google Workspace account that still want to use Gmail with their domain mail, has been to use any bundled mailbox that is included with their commodity hosting package, such as Hostinger, and configure it as an additional account in Gmail. It is far superior as the messages are POP polled by Gmail which means they are not being forwarded, and it allows for Gmail to be configured to use that email account’s SMTP which should be configured for DKIM signing.

If you look further back, you will see that this problem is not new and has been going on for as long as Cloudflare Email Routing has existed. It will continue to exist as long as spammers are still sending email. Spammers are the number one reason that forwarding email has become unreliable in the twenty teens and beyond. When spam is forwarded to Gmail, the forwarding server is identified as the spammer. Google has long advised that anyone who wants to forward email to their Gmail account should aggressively filter their spam prior to forwarding lest the aforementioned scenario occur. The day I read that back in the twenty teens was the day I realized that forwarding was done. I have recommended against it ever since.

2 Likes

Actually I am just using hostinger for email forwarding… am not using their mailbox service as such… I’ve set up hostinger to forward emails to gmail just like I’ve been doing (albeit with problems) via cloudflare.

But perhaps hostinger is used less by spammers than cloudflare, so it’s less likely to be seen as spammy by google.

I will look into the option of specifying hostinger as an additional account in gmail, but in the meantime I’m questioning what use cloudflare email routing actually is if the destination for forwarded emails (whatever that is) is likely one day (and without notice) to start rejecting emails on the same basis that google is.

1 Like

It’s a full mailbox with full SMTP/POP/IMAP capabilities. The fact that you only use it to forward emails doesn’t change what it really is.

This!

Signup up with any transactional email service provider, and before you’ll get the green light to send out emails, you’ll typically jump through some hoops to satisfy the platform provider you’re not a spammer. And even after the initial greenlight, your account is still going to be monitored for some time.

There’s no such screening here with Cloudflare Email Routing. And relying on such a free-for-all email service that’s open to anyone to receive (supposedly important) emails won’t be a particularly smart move.

In the end use whatever service works best for you. If that is Hostinger (irrespective of what it is under the covers), so be it. Nothing you say here is ever going to make the least difference to your email sending/receiving destiny :smiley:

But regardless of whether hostinger provides a mailbox service, does an email forwarded by hostinger look any different when it reaches gmail than an email forwarded by cloudflare… does google know that there is an email service at the other (hostinger) end… or is it just a forwarded email like any other? If emails forwarded from cloudflare are considered as being spammy (and therefore likely to be rejected at random) then I am starting to doubt whether the email forwarding service from cloudflare is actually of much use… or at least should come with a warning?

Yes, it does: because (if configured correctly), messages would be DKIM-signed.

I’d assumed that it was just a literal forwarding, without adding any content or signature etc

The spam isn’t coming from the users of Cloudflare Email Routing or Hostinger users directly, but is being sent to the users of those services. With the new Gmail rules on DMARC in effect, there is probably a fair amount of legitimate mail that lacks a sufficiently aligned DKIM signature and is now meeting the criteria for rejection by Gmail and inflating the spam count. I expect that the amount of mailboxes forwarding from Hostinger pales by comparison to the volume arriving via Cloudflare. Estimates for the percentage of email that is spam range from 49% to over 80%. Whatever amount it currently is, more spam will arrive from Cloudflare Email Routing simply because it is busier.

Consider turning off forwarding on your Hostinger mailbox, and add it to your Gmail as and additional account instead. (Use POP3S on port 995 if you can, or POPS with TLS on 110 otherwise, and do not leave messages on the server.) The only issue you may encounter is speed if you use email as if it were instant messaging. Even then, you can force Gmail to poll the Hostinger mailbox if you find that you aren’t seeing a message such as an authentication code email quickly enough.

Thanks, really appreciate the insight @epic.network and @GeorgeAppiah.

1 Like

Just to be clear, is the reason for fewer problems with forwarding via Hostinger vs Cloudflare likely just because of the sheer volume from Cloudflare vs Hostinger, or because Hostinger actually provide a mailbox service? Because if Hostinger is just forwarding emails without ever going via the mailbox service (it’s not even mandatory to set up a mailbox for a particular email address to activate forwarding), then it wouldn’t make any difference surely? It’s not as if the email is received by Hostinger into the inbox, and then sent onwards from that mailbox?

It is exactly like that. It is matter of being being received and then re-sent by Hostinger (or whomever is performing the forwarding) that causes the issue. Whether it is forwarded by an inbox rule or some other transport rule is immaterial.

When spam email arrives at Gmail, the server that connected to Google and delivered the spam will be given the substantial portion of the blame. When using email forwarding, this is always the forwarder.

@epic.network in my DNS for the relevant domain (where DNS is managed at Cloudflare), I have DKIM records set up as specified here… and MX records set up as specified here. But for email forwarding from Hostinger, do these DKIM records actually offer any form of protection/benefit? I can understand that they might, for emails actually originating from the Hostinger mailbox, but for emails received at Hostinger from some random source, and forwarded on… do these DKIM records come into play?

Sorry, I know it’s straying slightly away from Cloudflare and more towards Hostinger, and hence perhaps should be asking there, but this may be of more wider interest to those experiencing issues with using Cloudflare to forward their emails to Gmail.

Your DKIM records are only relevant for emails that you send that have your domain in the RFC 5322 From field (the one that is displayed in the recipient’s email program), and even then, those messages would need to be sent using a relay capable of signing with the private key that corresponds to the public key in your DKIM record.

This explanation of DMARC alignment may help that make more sense.

@epic.network that’s really helpful, thanks. I just tried sending an email from my Gmail account but using the “send as” feature so that it’s actually Hostinger sending the email via SMTP, and sure enough the received email does have a DKIM-Signature, and the domain in DKIM-Signature and Return-Path and From are all aligned. So it works even when sending from Gmail (via SMTP).

And for an email sent from a third party to my domain (forwarded to Gmail by Hostinger), I can see Hostinger’s fingerprints all over the email in the various headers… i.e. I can see how Gmail knows that it’s come via Hostinger and might treat it differently to one received directly… and differently to one that has come via Cloudflare.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 2 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.